Pillars of Pack Leadership with Alyson Rodges of Aly's Puppy Bootcamp

Meet Aly:

Animals have been part of Alyson Rodges’s life for as long as she can remember. Beginning at six and continuing through high school, she took lessons at a community park from renowned horse trainer Vivian Carter. She inherited her older brother’s horse, which she eventually sold to buy a car to drive to college – an early symptom of Aly’s “nothing can stop me” spirit. 

At 18, she showcased her innate business sensibility by opening frozen yogurt stores with her sister. Later, she became a top-seller of Mary Kay cosmetics. Aly embodies the practicality of an entrepreneur, the kind heart of a true animal lover, and the skills of a lifelong trainer. 

Since 2012, Aly has combined those talents and brought her warm infectious energy to help dog owners create respectful relationships with their pups through the Pillars of Pack Leadership® –four exploratory concepts that are easily translated into real life for busy dog owners. 

Aly has an affinity for people wanting to get better with animals, and provides a safe, nonjudgmental learning zone where there’s no such thing as failing. She’s a certified trainer who truly cares, graciously welcomes, and gets results. 

Links & Resources:

• Website
• YouTube
• Instagram
• Facebook
• Anxious and Nervous Dog Workshop

Ready for a website you love?  Let's hop on a call and see if working together is a fit.

For the transcript and show notes:
https://laurakamark.com/69

Transcript

Laura Kåmark [00:00:01]:
Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Be Bold Make Waves podcast, a show bringing you inspiring stories of women who are growing and scaling their business. I'm your host, Laura Kåmark, a website and tech integration specialist who works with online business owners who love their work and not their website. Join me as we have incredible conversations about business, mindset, productivity, and, of course, the website and tech behind the business. Let's go ahead and dive in to this week's episode. Hello, and welcome to this week's show. For those of you who don't already know me, I'm Laura Kåmark, Evergreen email marketing expert for coaches and consultants who love their work but not their tech. I'm so excited about my guest and client and good friend who is on the podcast today, Aly Rodges.

Laura Kåmark [00:00:54]:
Animals Okay. Animals have been a part of Aly's life for as long as she can remember. Beginning at 6 and continuing through high school, she took lessons at a community park for re renowned horse trainer, Vivian Carter. She inherited her older brother's horse, which she eventually sold to buy a car to drive to college, an early symptom of Allie's nothing can stop me spirit. At 18, she showcased her innate business sensibility by opening frozen yogurt stores with her sister. Later, she became a top seller of Mary Kay Cosmetics. Aly embodies the practicality of an entrepreneur, the kind heart of a true animal lover, and the skills of a lifelong trainer. Since 2012, Aly has combined those talents and brought her warm infectious energy to help dog owners create respectful relationships with their pups through the pillars of pack leadership.

Laura Kåmark [00:01:47]:
Four exploratory concepts that are easily translated into real life for busy dog owners. Ally has an affinity for people wanting to get better with animals and provide a safe, nonjudgmental learning zone where there's no such thing as failing. She's a certified trainer who truly cares, graciously welcomes, and gets results. Ali, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Can you tell our listeners how like, I wanna hear, like, kind of the short version because I know we could talk all day long about this. All day

Alyson Rodges [00:02:16]:
long. Always. Always. Always.

Laura Kåmark [00:02:19]:
I wanna hear, like, the cliff note version of how you became a dog trainer. But and more so, like, you are the doodle whisperer.

Alyson Rodges [00:02:26]:
It is true. And thank you for having me, Laura. It's good to be here. You know, it's funny when you talk to someone that you talk to all the time like you and I do in a business capacity. It's fun to, like, do this. It's so different, and and so I love it. But in a hot nutshell, clearly, I had a lot of business acumen that I brought forward to this season in my life, and I was always the horse girl and the dog girl. And I made money for it.

Alyson Rodges [00:02:51]:
I trained my first dog when I was 12, and I got money for it when I was 13. I am now 60. And somewhere in my mid forties, after other careers that I was very successful at, I really just said, I want to do this. And and this is the truth. I poked my husband at 4:30 AM, and that's our special time. If I wake up at 4:30 AM, it is a ding, ding, ding moment. My husband will always go, oh god. Okay.

Alyson Rodges [00:03:16]:
Something big is coming. I woke him up and I said, Grant, I'm gonna be a dog trainer. And he goes, of course, you are, sweetheart. And and that day, I just said, I'm gonna do this full time. I am not gonna do it mixed with other things, dabbling here and there, and just being the friend that helps and gets a little money here and there. I just said, I'm gonna do this. And I and I brought my business acumen with me, and I made some decisions about how I was gonna run my business. And I decided after all those decades that I had something very specific to say about it.

Alyson Rodges [00:03:49]:
It. I've been around a lot of trainers. Nothing like I am now in this end of my professional life, but my whole life had been with professional horse trainers and and by extension, a lot of dogs. And I saw a lot of things and participated in things, and, I just arove arose? I don't know. Whatever. Arrived at my own conclusions about what I wanted to do and how I wanted to do it. So on day 1, when I said I'm gonna be a dog trainer, I reached out to some doodle breeders, a specific doodle breeder that I had formed a relationship with. And I was actually a guardian home for my guy cozy, my 16 and a half year old dog.

Alyson Rodges [00:04:27]:
We call him our old daughter in full now, but, back then, I was a mom with kids in private school. We didn't have 1,000 of extra dollars, so I became a guardian home. And when Gail said these words to me, when my dog, Cozy, went to go do his business, you know, to make the babies that he was supposed to do because, you know, he was 2 years old, it this time. And, she called me that night and said, Allison, what did you do to this dog? And I said, oh my gosh. He better be being great. She was, no. He's not just great. He's the most amazing dog I've ever had on the property.

Alyson Rodges [00:05:02]:
I couldn't let that thought go. And and then she said, do you did you do this? And I said, yeah. I did. I did what I always do. And it was, like, 30 days later when I woke my husband up and there and I said, I'm gonna do this full time, full tilt, although. And I called that same trainer, and I told her, I said, Gail, I couldn't let go of the words you said to me, and I'm gonna be a dog trainer. I think I can change your clients' lives and their dogs' lives. She said, great.

Alyson Rodges [00:05:28]:
I've got my first client, and they need help, and they're in the Netherlands. Can you help them? And I I and Allie's Puppy Boot Camp was born. I mean, I said, well, yes, I can. And she said, well, what's your business name? And, you know, I said, well, let me get back to you tomorrow. So that night, Laura, I stayed up all night. I created my own first website, which you know me in tech. Oh my lord. Can you imagine that? I created a website.

Alyson Rodges [00:05:52]:
My first brochure, my mission statement, which is still my mission statement, by the way. It's never changed. And, my first package, and I called her back the next day and said, Alex, puppy boot camp, and here it is. And from that day forward, I have truly never not had a dog in training. I mean, from that day forward since 2012, we've had dogs in training every single day. And from 1 to 2 to 5 to 10 now, we're we have 32 dogs on the property today. That's That's my story.

Laura Kåmark [00:06:24]:
I love that. Oh, I love that so much. And I love there's something that really stood out to me. Well, a lot stood out to me. But what you said where you just went and did like, you created that first website, and you didn't wait for it to get perfect. You didn't sit there and tinker with it for weeks, months. And that's the thing that I find people get so held back in it has to be perfect, and it has to. But instead of just, like, going forward with the idea and making it happen and knowing that later I mean, how many websites have you had since that

Alyson Rodges [00:06:57]:
web? 5. I think and we're already getting ready. You and I are gonna be doing a little more new refurbishment. I think I've had 5. So it's you you can't let things like that stop you. I've always kinda marched before I had all the other ducks in a row. And you're you've seen it with the book, with the online course Mhmm. With my patented leash, I just I start.

Alyson Rodges [00:07:19]:
I just go. You know?

Laura Kåmark [00:07:21]:
We're gonna build this plane while it's flying.

Alyson Rodges [00:07:23]:
Yeah. Build it and knowing that, you know, I always have a very good vision of what I wanna do, knowing that I give myself room to change and grow. I mean, who isn't gonna change and grow? All of us are. Certainly, my dog training has. But interestingly enough, you're gonna I mean, with of course, I was much older when I began this career. And I I had a real idea in my head about how I want to approach dog training. So I know that sounds kinda crazy coming into it with a full kind of package idea. But very early within the 1st year, I named my pillars of pack leadership.

Alyson Rodges [00:07:58]:
I like I said, this is it. Your framework. This is how this is how I'm going to approach dog training. And I'm gonna name it, And I and and, shockingly, it my foundation has never changed. With all the learning I've done now with true professionals, you know, I wasn't a professional then. I mean, I just decided to be and did it. I mean, I was good. I clearly had some experience with dogs.

Alyson Rodges [00:08:22]:
I was going, you know, I made you better. That's good. Yeah. People I can help people, because of all my experiences with employees. I think training and certainly in Mary Kay, learning how to share knowledge and, my education at college, a marketing degree with a journalism minor. I mean, I had those skills to bring to the table. And with all my horse experience, I'm a non pro in that world. So I have such a heart for the yous and me's that aren't professionals, and we want to learn to do it better.

Alyson Rodges [00:08:56]:
And, I I really have been through so much training in my horses that I I brought a lot of that to my dog table knowing it doesn't help you just to say, yeah. Well, you got a problem. You'll know it when you fix it kinda thing. You really need to be able to break it down, and that's what I'm so good at being able to break it down for people.

Laura Kåmark [00:09:15]:
I wanna I want you to tell our listeners a little bit more. Let's go a little deeper into your 4 pillars. Yeah. Tell us what those are and kinda break it down.

Alyson Rodges [00:09:23]:
I will. Now I this has changed. I've added a 5th pillar, so that evolved. Yes. It did. Because I kinda lump 2 of them together, and I said, I really need to split it out. It's so big. Right? So the first pillar is mastering purpose driven activities.

Alyson Rodges [00:09:42]:
Right? And what are that? What is that? That's walking with your dog, playing with your dog, asking your dog to do something, living life with your dog. I'm asking you to do it in a purposeful way. That's that's the first pillar. The second pillar is providing structure. Right? Learning how to provide structure in your real life. I've always done my businesses as I had my babies. Now I'm a grandma. Now I have grandbabies.

Alyson Rodges [00:10:08]:
Right? So babies and children and I'm the youngest of 5 children. I have a big family. Cousins and aunts and uncles and brothers and sisters. And my mom and my dad, it's a very big Portuguese family, and we're all all over everyone's business. So I had to learn how to do it all while I was doing that. So the way I add structure is the way I live. Okay? That's the second pillar. The third pillar is establishing effective respective space rituals.

Alyson Rodges [00:10:38]:
And I know that sounds like, what's that? But really, it makes a lot of sense when someone says, my dog is jumping on everyone. Oh, you think jumping is the problem. But, really, it's a respective space issue. That's the root of the issue. Right? My dog does this. My dog does that. It is almost always a respective space component is going on. So that's the 3rd pillar.

Alyson Rodges [00:11:02]:
The 4th pillar is, the human component. This is the one I broke out on its own, the human component. Your touch, your tone, your timing, it's very important for you to be able to communicate to a dog in a way that makes sense to a dog. Right? We're humans. We speak English or French or Spanish, whatever language we speak. We speak human. We're human. We are we if we think in human ways, we move in human ways because we're human.

Alyson Rodges [00:11:33]:
Dogs are canines. They have a very different idea about things. Right? So what we want you to do is understand that your dog has to learn to be respectful of space. And I'm gonna tell you all about all kinds of ways when you wanna ask deeper about it. But so the other one I have to, is, effective stretch oh, rituals. The final one. Establishing effective rituals. Potty rituals, bedtime rituals, and feed time rituals.

Alyson Rodges [00:12:06]:
That's the 5 pillars right there. So case I pulled out from the human component. I had those mixed together, and I said, now I need 5, not 4. So now I have 5.

Laura Kåmark [00:12:18]:
So I have a question on some of this Yes. In regards to my my dog, Benjamin or Benny, who is and Benny, who is our ginormous, Rhodesian Ridgeback Lab, we believe, rescue that we got. He was about, like, 10 months to a year old. Someone dumped him on the side of the highway, which is horrible, but great for us because he's amazing.

Alyson Rodges [00:12:38]:
He's a good dog. Yeah.

Laura Kåmark [00:12:39]:
Oh, he's so good. He's so good with my kids. And it's really interesting to me because he every night when we do bedtime with the kids and we're my daughter share a room, and we go in there to read stories. And for the past few years, he's we've had him for 4 years now. He just, like, runs into the room with us. We don't call him.

Alyson Rodges [00:12:58]:
Yeah. He's

Laura Kåmark [00:12:58]:
he's into the room. Teachable. And he will sit in a like, right in the middle of where we are, or he'll climb in bed with 1 of the girls. He gets very needy and, like, lays his head in their lap. He's just he's very you know, and he's £80.

Alyson Rodges [00:13:11]:
Yeah. He's the big boy, but he thinks he's a lap dog. I get it. I don't know.

Laura Kåmark [00:13:14]:
Sometimes. He's definitely not snuggly with me. But, I mean, it's always been so interesting to me because it was nothing that we ever we might have called him in there in the beginning, but, like, he just does it on his own, and it's cute because we watch for him to do it and come, like, snuggle in with them. So is that him seeing it as this is the ritual? We read stories. We do snuggle time. Right.

Alyson Rodges [00:13:32]:
This is

Laura Kåmark [00:13:33]:
when I come snuggle with my little girl. That is the ritual

Alyson Rodges [00:13:35]:
you you created with him. You don't know you did it, but you did. And rituals can change. Right? Rituals can change. So how I came up with the pillars is really what a mom dog does to a baby dog. Right? And so let's go through it. Mommy dogs say, hey. It's time to eat.

Alyson Rodges [00:13:54]:
Time to stop eating. Right? Time to play. Oh, don't like that. Don't like that plan. Right? Time to go to sleep. You're gonna go potty here, not there. I do not want you anywhere near me. Mommy dog say that all the time to their puppies.

Alyson Rodges [00:14:09]:
Right? So what you're learning and what you're seeing there, those are that's every pillar. Respect to space, feed time rituals, bedtime rituals, potty rituals, the structure of the day. Mommies are very structured with their puppies. I mean, there's playtime, there's eat time, there's sleep time, there's runaround time, and don't run so far from me. There's that too. I mean, so there's all these things, but when I watched mom dogs with baby dogs and I I've now I can't even tell you how many hundreds of hours I've seen mommies with their babies. That's how I formulated my foundation. I mean, I said, this is really what it comes down to.

Alyson Rodges [00:14:47]:
This is the root. This is the foundation upon which sit down, stay calm, and all those other things are built. But the foundation is you have to have rituals. You have to have structure. You have to have, purpose in what they do. You know, prior to I don't know, the nineties, dogs actually had jobs. They did stuff. They were bred to do things like Rhodesian Ridgebacks were in Africa doing things with lions.

Alyson Rodges [00:15:17]:
They were protecting. Right? They every dog had function, and then something kinda transformed towards the nineties when dogs became merely companions. And I think we really robbed a lot of, purpose from our dogs' lives. So if you're gonna take a dog that was bred to do something and they don't get to do it, you have to fulfill them. And that's what being purposeful is. Right? So that's do you see where all these foundations spread their tentacles into that absolutely everyday application?

Laura Kåmark [00:15:50]:
Yeah. I mean, as you were going through them, I was thinking of all these different things, like, with the no jumping. When as soon as we got that giant dog and we had a 2 year old, there was a very like, I don't there's no jumping up. There's no like, we've I put such strict, you know, no tossing treats for them to jump for it.

Alyson Rodges [00:16:05]:
There is

Laura Kåmark [00:16:05]:
no jumping. And there's a woman on the beach here who's 92 years old, and she's out walking her, poodle who cares nothing about anything other than the ball every day, Clarita. She has a pocket full of treats. Every dog on this beach knows she has a pocket full of treats. My dog will run full steam ahead at her. Stop the moment he gets to her and sit.

Alyson Rodges [00:16:26]:
Well, thank you, Laura, that you are a responsible owner with that 90 pound dog because guess what happened 3 weeks ago to my 92 year old father? 2.90 pound labs out ahead of their owner, very unruly, not aggressive. They didn't bite or anything. They're just out of control. And they're dogs of size. And they 15 feet on flexi's out ahead of him walking around the neighborhood. My dad was just in his yard pulling weeds. They come barreling onto dad's property, knock him over. My dad broke his hip.

Alyson Rodges [00:16:58]:
That can end a 92 year old's life.

Laura Kåmark [00:17:00]:
Yeah.

Alyson Rodges [00:17:01]:
Right? So so I'm so proud of you for recognizing your part of the equation. Hello, 5th pillar human.

Laura Kåmark [00:17:09]:
Yep.

Alyson Rodges [00:17:09]:
You understood your responsibilities, and, someone like you is the reason my dad could have been saved from what happened to him. You know? He survived surgery, but there's a whole host his life is over the way he knew it. So so your friend on the beach, I can't tell you how my heart is happy that you were an owner taking your responsibilities seriously, and and you lived it. You know, because you were being practical. You were thinking I have a 2 year old not even seeing the translation of what it would mean down the line, living near water and beaches, how you could be impacting, an innocent 92 year old. Right?

Laura Kåmark [00:17:51]:
Well, I see it a lot with people with puppies, and they're, like, teaching them to jump up. I'm like, when that lab puppy gets a lot older, that's not gonna be real cute. And, again, I have kids. I've, from day 1, taught my kids how to properly be around dogs and the proper things to say, the proper do. You always ask the owner. You'd never just go up to a dog. You don't get it in space. Like, all these things, I am so strict with my children because they're dogs.

Alyson Rodges [00:18:16]:
Thank you. They're dogs. Right? So Yeah. It's important. And safety is, you know, my moniker from day 1. I set and this was on my very first website. Yeah. This is Aly from Aly's Puppy Boot Camp, and I wanna help you learn how to live in a safe, sane, and civilized way together.

Alyson Rodges [00:18:31]:
I mean, that's in my book. It's on everything. That is what I say. I want you all to learn how to live together in a safe, sane, and civilized way. That really compelled me as a mother of children. As a mother and my children, I was the neighborhood. I was the the mom with the horses and the dogs, all these things all around. You can get hurt.

Alyson Rodges [00:18:52]:
Yeah. People forget that animals are animals. Mhmm. And we start treating them like people and they're not. I I really want if I haven't changed the way people think about a dog, I have not done my job. Right? Because I want you to people will love we all love our dogs like crazy, but sometimes we love them so crazy, we make them crazy. You know, we love them so much that we drive them a little crazy. So I always tell my clients, listen.

Alyson Rodges [00:19:18]:
I want you to love your dog, but I want you to love your dog in a way that's honoring to your dog. Right? And it's important that we teach people who dogs are, how they think, why, what they do. In my book, the pillars of pack leadership, sit down, stay calm is on page 70. You hear what I'm saying? So sit down, stay come is at the end. You have to learn what so much more about your dog. Like, you you didn't even know you were establishing respective space boundaries. Now you know what it's called. You were you made it hard and fast because you knew you had a dog of size and you knew you had young children, and it was gonna be life altering.

Alyson Rodges [00:19:58]:
And you understood from having such a big dog, you didn't want your children getting bit. You didn't want them. And 99 percent of all bites on children are from dogs they know or they live with. Right? So it's not from stranger dogs. It's from dogs they know. And I have a personal story when I was 10. You know, all these things that happened in your youth contribute. My girlfriend got bit in the face and got a 180 stitches from a dog that we knew and loved.

Alyson Rodges [00:20:24]:
He was a good dog, and I'll never forget it because that day, Debbie was, hi. Doogie doogie doggy doggy. You're doing and we're doing everything wrong. We were kids doing everything wrong. And I remember the hair on the back of my neck stood up because I was that kid. I was that kid that was born with it. I kinda just had feelings. I don't know why.

Alyson Rodges [00:20:43]:
Now I do. But then I didn't. I just had the feeling. I I was that kid that could tell what was gonna happen or, oh, felt funny. And she just kept it up. On that day, that poor dog was telling us, I can see it almost in slow motion in my mind's eye. He was telling us in every way he knew how, please not today. Not today, girls.

Alyson Rodges [00:21:04]:
Who knows? Maybe he was sick, maybe he was hurt, maybe he had pain, or maybe he just had so many other Laura that this is it. This is the last day. He pulled back. He squinted his eyes. He looked away. Every sign that a dog is saying, not today. No. Thank you.

Alyson Rodges [00:21:20]:
And and she got bit. And the thing is that dog wasn't a bad dog. We just pushed him beyond the point. We forget their dogs. Right? So painful lessons that I brought forward into my business. And those are all things that I mean, I didn't know I was gonna be a dog trainer at 10, but certainly that's contributed to my entire safety mindset and about teaching people like you did. It's like, no. I have to have this dog under control.

Alyson Rodges [00:21:46]:
I he's a hazard otherwise. You know? And and yet I treat 2 pound dogs the same way. Right? I I train every dog the same way from £2200 and everything in between because the concepts don't change. Their mommy treats them the same whether they're £2 or £50. Yep. Alright.

Laura Kåmark [00:22:06]:
So I wanna talk a little bit about how you're helping people today. So you have Ally's Puppy Boot Camp. You have a physical location where you do training on-site. So is that just for a local clientele?

Alyson Rodges [00:22:18]:
No. No. As a matter of fact, it was funny because my very first client was in the Netherlands. Right? So from day 1, I had to have a very outward focused, thinking. Well and that friend had a friend in Spain, and then that friend had a so my very early clients were very far away. But I used Facebook, and I said, well, I'm just gonna run around with literally run around on my cell phone or back then it wasn't even cell phones. It was those little, my kids' little flip videos. I don't I'm dating myself there.

Alyson Rodges [00:22:49]:
But they were the little flip videos, and you would just plug it in and would upload it into the computer kinda magically, which for me in technology, I needed at the time. And, so be pre Laura, we could do all this with the cell phones. I was doing it. I said, well, I'm just gonna let them watch because they can watch from far away. So so my in person facility was my home where I live. We have property and was where I raised my kids and had my horses and my, you know, goats and chickens and all the stuff we have. And, that's where it started, and then it grew from there. And I had to get a bigger property down the line.

Alyson Rodges [00:23:21]:
You know, within 5 years, we were way outgrew. I mean, by then, I was up to 18, 19 dogs a day, and I needed more. So now we have 2 and a half acres, and, we have our in person facility. But I have dogs fly in. They arrive, and I'm not joking. I'm not joking. By plane, trains, and automobiles, dogs come to us for our 2 or 3 week in person training. But, soon thereafter, the business grew.

Alyson Rodges [00:23:48]:
People my clients would say, oh my god. I've never heard these things. I mean, I'm just gonna throw this out to you. Prey drive, pack drive, defensive drive. How much have you been told and talked about that?

Laura Kåmark [00:24:00]:
Oh, I mean, I've done a lot of dog stuff, and I've been around you for a while.

Alyson Rodges [00:24:04]:
I know. But think preemie. How much have you heard prey drive, pack drive, defensive drive?

Laura Kåmark [00:24:10]:
Not enough.

Alyson Rodges [00:24:11]:
Not enough. I mean, I can almost tell you with 98% certainty, almost everyone who's taken obedience classes and everything, they're never talking about prey drive, pack drive, defensive drive. And I know I was a kid taking those classes way back when. Right? And they weren't talking about it. I knew there was more to the story. I just didn't know what. And I knew by watching dogs, they had drives. I could see it, but I didn't really understand to the degree that I do now how much it affects everything.

Alyson Rodges [00:24:42]:
It's long before sit down stay. You know, people say, sit, Fido, and Fido's sitting and he's wiggling and vibrating. That's not a sit. Is that sit bringing calm? No. Right? Because you can't compel acceptance, and you cannot command calm. Right? If you could, you would never need anything ever except to sit. Sit and that would fix everything. Right? But sit doesn't.

Alyson Rodges [00:25:09]:
Magic. Yeah. It doesn't. Because, you know so so my whole thinking was we have to change the way people think about dogs. And and I did it in a very outward way. So my draw was from very far away, very early on. It's kind of done this. It went from way out here from all over.

Alyson Rodges [00:25:28]:
We now have dogs we've trained in virtually every state of the nation and in 7 foreign countries. So it started from way out there, and now it's coming to where my local neighbors are, you know, saying, oh, hey. She's the dog trainer. Yeah. And, and some of that is when you raised and been lived in a community your whole life, they go, I went to kindergarten with you. How are you this international dog trainer? Well, I am. Yeah. So it take it takes some time before the local locals, embrace you.

Alyson Rodges [00:25:55]:
You know, Jesus was a carpenter, but, you know, can you imagine what they're all saying? They're going, dude, you're not you're just Jesus. You're you're you're a carpenter. What are you doing? The son of god stuff? You know

Laura Kåmark [00:26:06]:
what I mean?

Alyson Rodges [00:26:06]:
Yeah. Comparison. I say that jokingly, but you know?

Laura Kåmark [00:26:10]:
So you talked to me about when you created the course that is online Okay. And how that kinda fits into the business.

Alyson Rodges [00:26:19]:
You're gonna love this because it was very much like everything else. Something was coming up that I said, well, I better have something when I go. I I got invited to speak at the International Association, for Australian Labradoodles. They're a national convention, and I was going to be a presenter in 17. So somewhere around mid 16, I said, holy crap. I got I better get I better have something to show them. And what I kept hearing from my clients is, you know, the page I packed right there, all the stuff we teach. You know, fight, flight, avoidance, acceptance, All these states of mind, all these things that go, we've never heard this.

Alyson Rodges [00:26:56]:
I've never heard this. I've taken I've owned dogs my whole life. I've done obedience. I've never heard this. Oh my gosh. You teach so much. You need to video this. That that was what my clients were telling me.

Alyson Rodges [00:27:06]:
They said, we have loved what we've learned. Now we just wanna it's almost like a fire hose. We need to see it again and again and again. So the the seeds were dropped about that I needed to do a video course. And then I got invited to go. And I said, well, now I gotta create it. So, that's when close to when I met you. I think I met you soon thereafter.

Alyson Rodges [00:27:28]:
I met a girl and she said, okay. We're gonna we you know what we did? We took Amy Porterfield's how to launch a course in 60 days. That's what we did. We did a online thing, and we just made the course, and it is still after all these years. I've added very few things to it. I'm stunned at how good it was. You know? Again, on our cell phone, it isn't fancy, but it's well done. Yeah.

Alyson Rodges [00:27:53]:
And my son and I filmed it, and I wrote because I have a writing background. I know what I wanna say. And I about dogs, I have a very clear vision about how I wanna do it, how I wanna say it. And I wrote it. We filmed it. We put it together, and that is still the pillars of PAC Leadership Academy. I've added some bonus things to it. Just, again, like how I split out that 5th pillar, I've added very specific meet and greet guidance.

Alyson Rodges [00:28:22]:
I've added, an expansion of place. Place is a huge concept in our in our training, a place board, a a a a defined space where you ask a dog to be for a period of time. Right? And I I I thought it was so meritorious and worthy and so foundational in the respective space pillar that it needed its own module. So that's the course. It is all the pillars, and it literally takes you through. It has a nuisance. But at the end because if you do all this stuff, all those nuisance behaviors start to fade away. It has a command section, sit down, stay calm.

Alyson Rodges [00:28:58]:
You know, I want all my dogs to pass test. I love winning to Little Blue Ribbons, and I want AKC Canine Good Citizens test to be able to pass that. I'm a certified, AKC evaluator. So I want you and your dog to be able to go pass that test. When you go through training with us, I think that's a good benchmark. I train a lot of service dogs and therapy dogs. They have to pass test. Yep.

Alyson Rodges [00:29:23]:
They have to pass public access test. They have to pass therapy dog testing. Very rigorous. I mean, one of our dogs was the very first dog allowed in the San Francisco Cancer Center, for therapy dog work. And we have another dog working down in, LA, and it was incredibly rigorous, the testing for this this particular, hospital. It's a big hospital, and she is one of the very few people to have passed it. So so we want you to be able to do those things. Right? And and the course was the way that my clients who trained it with me in person could do it again and again and again.

Alyson Rodges [00:30:00]:
And then I said, well, if my clients can benefit it from it, couldn't everyone? And that's where we met you and said, okay. How do we get this thing online and start selling it? You know? So, that's how the online course that's where it came from, initially from clients and then saying, well, it helps everyone, and it does. I mean, I meet people now all over the country who have never met me, and they've taken my course and we meet each other online. At the end, I always talk to people, and they go, oh my god. This was so transformative. We loved it. You know, respect the space and looking at a dog through a dog's eyes and, you know, learning that there's different things you do. If your dog's in defensive dive, you don't do this, this, and this.

Alyson Rodges [00:30:45]:
The dogs and prey drive, you do this, this, and this. You know, it's learning the things you need to do to help a dog navigate through their natural drives.

Laura Kåmark [00:30:55]:
When is it a good time to do training with a dog? Is it, I have a puppy. Now I need to do training. Is it, I have this dog. I've had him for years. Can you teach an old dog new tricks?

Alyson Rodges [00:31:08]:
You can. You can. I have an 8 year old dog in training right now. You can certainly teach them. Right? And I always put it like this. I'll tell people, listen. Every dog benefits from the foundation, from the 5 pillars. Every dog benefits from it.

Alyson Rodges [00:31:25]:
Every dog will get better. If your dog is already good, it's gonna become great. If your dog was great, it's gonna become exceptional. Right? Every dog benefits from structure and rituals and respect to space and all those then purpose driven activities. Everyone benefits from it. The challenge is some dogs in the absence of it really go wrong. Right? And so it is never too late. I mean, you we've had I I deal with some aggressive.

Alyson Rodges [00:31:53]:
I choose by my business choice not to do extreme aggressive. I've done some biting dogs, but I'm gonna do some evaluations and have a lot of discussion. I mean, there's bites and there's bites. Right? And so I make those decisions, but I choose not to deal with the extreme aggressive cases in my business. So no matter what your issue is, you can improve it. Again, every dog gets better. Dogs love structure. If you watch dogs how they live their life, you know, this free for all, do anything anywhere, any it's no wonder we have more anxious dogs than ever.

Alyson Rodges [00:32:30]:
Right? And and we do, statistically. And COVID just made it off the hook. We have anxiety, needy dogs. I've never seen anything like it in all my decades of work my lifetime of working with animals. What we have seen since COVID, there was so much isolation. Dogs are pack animals. Right? They left to their own devices. There's a very strict order to things.

Alyson Rodges [00:32:56]:
There's a very strict hierarchy. There's consequences to choices. There is a purse, a dog in charge always. There's somebody. And and if that one leaves, another one takes the place. Right? So there's always an order to it. They play. They work.

Alyson Rodges [00:33:13]:
They cooperate. And they do not accept infractions, social infractions. Right? Like, untold, you never see a puppy jumping on an old dog. You hear this. Right? Right? You you know, you we've all seen it. Oh, that old dog doesn't want anything to do with it. Right? So you can help every dog learn that by adding order and structure and and purpose driven activities and respect this space, you can teach every dog that they can live in this world in a more safe, sane, and civilized way. Anxious dogs become less anxious.

Alyson Rodges [00:33:49]:
Forward dogs become less forward. Reactive dogs become less reactive. Scaredy cat dogs, the ones that go, I cannot cope with the world, become able to more cope. Right? They learn how to stand on their own 4 paws. That's what the pillars of pack leadership does for all dogs of all ages. And and we've lived it. I mean, I've trained over 6,000 dogs now. Can you believe that? I mean, that's a lot of dogs and double that number of humans because every dog has 2 to 5 humans hooked to it, if not more.

Laura Kåmark [00:34:18]:
So I wanna talk about that.

Alyson Rodges [00:34:20]:
Okay. How

Laura Kåmark [00:34:21]:
do you deal with when you I mean, you do. You have I mean, I see that just with my husband and I, and then I also had these little kids who are like, oh, we want treats. We wanna train the dog. And I'm like, you're doing all

Alyson Rodges [00:34:30]:
these things. Stop throwing treats in

Laura Kåmark [00:34:31]:
the air. I don't want him jumping. And so how do you deal with that when you have so many people who are training the same dog?

Alyson Rodges [00:34:39]:
Great question. And the pillars of pack leadership, my book, and my course, because every one of my clients gets my course. It's part of the package. They get it. So my clients are getting reading. They actually read things as a family to the little ones, to the grandmas, the grandpas, the au pairs, the everything, you know, the whole enchilada. And then they're watching. And then at the end of our training, they come do it.

Alyson Rodges [00:35:05]:
Right? That's our in person graduation. So we read. We watch. We do. We use all our faculties of learning, and it helps to get people on the same page. But having said that, just like our kids know the rules are different. Like, when my grandkids come over, I sugar them up. I mean, I do things I would never have done with my own.

Alyson Rodges [00:35:27]:
You know, like, hey, here you go. Back to mom. There is a little degree of dogs get the difference. You know what I mean? They go, I'm with the principal. I can't get away with it with her, You know? But I can do it with him, and there is a degree of that. But education changes you. Right? Mhmm. And if you are willing to raise your children and with children, it really is this simple.

Alyson Rodges [00:35:51]:
You're the adult. They're the kid. Period. Animals have teeth. Dogs have teeth, and they're an apex predator. They can hurt you. You need to listen to mommy or grandma or auntie Sue or whatever. Right? So when I have groups, and we always do, it's like Laura job, mom, dad, is to educate.

Alyson Rodges [00:36:11]:
Educate your children. I'm giving you the words. I'm giving you they the kids love the videos. They love them. They understand them. It's short. They're sweet. They get right to the point, and you'd be shocked at how good kids do when they get a little bit of education.

Alyson Rodges [00:36:23]:
And when they get to my place, and even if I'm doing a FaceTime, I do a lot of consultations with FaceTime. You you know how I just seem like a principal? I I'm like the boss. I'm the boss lady. They immediately know I'm the boss, and they don't they don't mess around. Like, it's like, hey. Well, but I wanna and I and I instantly say, but it's not all about you, is it? Right? It's not all about you and what you want. This is a living, breathing thing, and we have to be concerned about what they need and what they want. And, certainly, that makes every parent go, yeah.

Alyson Rodges [00:36:55]:
Yeah. It's not all about you, you little brat. Yeah. We want we want our children to and this is the truth. I know this to be true. When we teach our children to be thoughtful, kind, considerate, and respectful of an animal, we create a better human being on the planet Earth. I mean, I know that to be true. Yeah.

Alyson Rodges [00:37:20]:
And and the lesson really is it's not all about you and what you want. I wanna give him treats out there. But you know what? You're a kid, and you don't understand that our dog killed that 92 year old lady on the beach by knocking her over and breaking her hip. So you don't get to do that because it's not all about you. Right? That's how I deal with it. I mean, I really that. I speak that frankly to my clients, and I always tell the world, anyone who talks to me, I am willing to risk your displeasure with me by telling you the truth.

Laura Kåmark [00:37:55]:
I love that. I find one of the things, like, my and, again, my dog has his own issues. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to get on here and see

Alyson Rodges [00:38:02]:
if he can.

Laura Kåmark [00:38:03]:
I have this perfect dog. Trust me. He's he's got that COVID anxiety because we got him in 2019. He's got so he's, I mean, he's he's very fearful of life. We call him a delicate flower. He's absolutely terrified.

Alyson Rodges [00:38:16]:
Actually very common in Rhodesians that that aren't really properly socialized as a baby. Mhmm.

Laura Kåmark [00:38:21]:
Yeah. He's terrified of small dogs. Like, it's you know, there's this really tiny one, those 2 pound dogs that lives just right, like, a few doors down, and she just

Alyson Rodges [00:38:29]:
the boss of everybody?

Laura Kåmark [00:38:31]:
She loves my dog. She's obsessed with him. And so when the dog walker comes out with that dog, her name's Natalie, and she's got, like, 5 dogs that she's walking because the the owner, he's I mean, he's just he rescues all the dogs Yeah. Usually small ones, and she just, like, sees my dog and my dog. She's like, he's on a leash. She's trying to, like, how can I get away? How can I hide behind mom? And, you know, he's £80 versus, like, I don't know. She's probably, like, £5. She's just this little fluffy thing.

Laura Kåmark [00:38:56]:
And I

Alyson Rodges [00:38:56]:
have nothing to matter. I mean

Laura Kåmark [00:38:59]:
Today, we were able because we're slowly working on him getting more comfortable with her. And it's hilarious because I've said to my husband, wanna see the dog get real uncomfortable. Here comes Natalie, and here goes the dog just like

Alyson Rodges [00:39:11]:
really respecting her energy. Yeah. Your dog is being very respectful. That little dog is exuding either a high level of energy or a command of space. 1 Probably energy. Yeah. Probably she's very,

Laura Kåmark [00:39:26]:
like she's very sweet and just, like she's got a lot of yeah. She's got that that little energy.

Alyson Rodges [00:39:31]:
A lot of dogs don't like that. And the strong forward dogs come in and say, knock it off, pipsqueak. We don't like it. Tone it down. And the and the scaredy cat dogs go, she's, like, scared. You know, it's just too much. Dogs don't like that energy. So, you know, we run socials every day at our place, so I'm watching 30 dogs every single day of the week interact.

Alyson Rodges [00:39:53]:
And when you and there's you need all the personalities. It's what makes their world rich. But they learn you watch them. And and your dog, by telling you, by moving back, he's saying, she's telling me, and he's being respectful. Mhmm. She's saying something, and he's listening. So I think your dog's being smart.

Laura Kåmark [00:40:13]:
Yes. Absolutely.

Alyson Rodges [00:40:14]:
You

Laura Kåmark [00:40:14]:
know? He's very something that I get a lot of compliments on him with is he's very good on leash, which, again, I go back to I have small children. He can't pull on a leash. That was not acceptable behavior. And can we talk a little bit about leashes and leash behavior and

Alyson Rodges [00:40:30]:
Okay.

Laura Kåmark [00:40:31]:
Something that you have come up with and shared with the world to change some of these leash things that happen with dog owners?

Alyson Rodges [00:40:38]:
So listen. Tools are out there. I love tools. I'm a trainer, very proficient in all kinds of tools. But as a dog trainer, I needed I like slip leads. I like head halter configurations, for up for particularly for children. It gives them a lot of control with a dog, that they need help with because they don't have size or muscle. Right? So I have a patented leash.

Alyson Rodges [00:41:05]:
My patent just came through, and we were at the Global Pet Expo. My product is in the new product showcase, and that's really fun. So this is my leash, the Good Walker Leash. It is 2 leashes in 1. It's very soft. I've been using it for years, proofing it in my own thing. So it's 2 leashes in 1. There it is as a slip lead.

Alyson Rodges [00:41:25]:
When you have a very good mannerly dog, a slip lead is all you need. But if by chance you have a dog that you need a little more control in a moment, you just quickly with one hand go, boop. And can you see that it just makes the head halter? And the unique leverage point, unlike most head halters out there, most head halters pull from the bottom and drag the dog's neck, which ergonomically is not a great thing, right, for the dog or its musculature. This has the leverage point from the top of the heaven. And so, really, it feels very much like a hackamore on a horse. For people that know horses, it it feels like a Kamark, and this coming from underneath. So, really, necessity was the mother of invention. There's so many products out there, and I've tried them all.

Alyson Rodges [00:42:14]:
I've had these hot little hands on 100 of things. I'm going, well, I like that. I don't like that. I like that. I just finally had to create my own. I just said I need it I need all the things to work. Right? So that's what I did with this. And for me, the one handed ability to change size, because I train dogs from £2 to a 150 at a flick of a switch, like, fast.

Alyson Rodges [00:42:38]:
I gotta go from this down to that, you know, fast. And I gotta be able to do it because I've usually got some kind of unruly dog that listen. They're at a training facility for a reason. Right? They're not behaving super well. They're jumping. They're aggressive. They're reactive. They're this, that, the other.

Alyson Rodges [00:42:56]:
There's something. And I gotta get them secured. Right? Leashes on. And then this is huge. People forget. I know layman, and I'm gonna call you a layman. And even though you've been doing stuff, you have it. See this? This is a safety.

Alyson Rodges [00:43:11]:
It's a backup, and it's nonnegotiable. It's hooked to the leash. Mhmm. So that you're gonna hook this to your dog's flat collar. So for god's sakes, any reason this thing comes off, you're hooked to your dog. Because I've had dogs pull out of Halties Mhmm. Out of gentle leaders. I mean, when a dog really gets into a fight situation that popped out, that is flat out dangerous.

Alyson Rodges [00:43:34]:
Right? So with my safety, it's free floating, so it can go anywhere it needs to go to fit any size dog. And it's not cumbersome. It's made out of the material of the leash, the strength. I mean, I I have to have things not break. Right? So so my leash, the good walker, I love it. It's it's I have 2 other patents on earlier designs. I don't know if you knew that. But my earlier, renditions, I got patents along the way, and they were good.

Alyson Rodges [00:44:02]:
I mean, I liked it, but this is the best. I mean, each time I I woke up at 4:30 in the morning, I told my husband, oh my god. I sat up in bed. I go, Grant, rings. He goes, what are you talking about? I said, not any other thing. Rings for the leash, rings. I can do it with rings and it will be smooth and it'll be fluid and I can do it and ingest it with one hand. He goes, you're crazy, but, okay, it sounds great.

Alyson Rodges [00:44:30]:
And that that's this. That's this. I because I've used other things. I've used other things, and the rings just changed it. And do you wanna know what else? I'm very proud of this, and I really had to look around for it. It was very important to me that my product be made in the USA. And I went to multiple manufacturers. I pay probably 4 to $5 more per leash.

Alyson Rodges [00:44:55]:
Yeah. But it's so worth it. The quality of my rope, my hardware, my snaps, I mean, it's just it's really good quality. And it was important to me. It's all made in the USA, every bit of it. And it's just got great you know, with the snugger is great. It stays snug. This floats.

Alyson Rodges [00:45:15]:
Hello, water people. It floats. And and now I have a water leash. You know, I have a actual water leash with a a little different clip that works really good in the sand, a beach leash. And then I also have a hands free version of the Good Walker. So people I have some of my service dogs, some of my clients don't have use of their hands. So we do a different configuration where it goes around their body. And now we've made it in the good walker.

Alyson Rodges [00:45:40]:
So we're excited. What are the questions you wanna answer?

Laura Kåmark [00:45:43]:
Oh, I know. We're gonna run out of time here soon. I have so many more. I'm curious because I recently did a first. He's like, what if he sees something and pushed it up? I'm like, he won't. He's, like, pulling an 80 pound first. He's like, what if he sees something and pushed it up? I'm like, he won't. He's, like, pulling an 80 pound anvil behind me.

Alyson Rodges [00:46:02]:
Right.

Laura Kåmark [00:46:03]:
The dog is like I I'm I think he likes hiking. If my husband walks in front, he picks up pace.

Alyson Rodges [00:46:09]:
Yeah. But if

Laura Kåmark [00:46:09]:
I'm in front, he's staying behind me, and

Alyson Rodges [00:46:12]:
he's close to me. Safe spot. Yeah.

Laura Kåmark [00:46:13]:
Yep. We started we've started putting a backpack on him, so he has a job. He has to carry his own water now.

Alyson Rodges [00:46:18]:
Listen to you doing all the things I teach. Sounds like you know a little bit about some stuff. I love that.

Laura Kåmark [00:46:25]:
I used to put, my old my former dog my last dog, Molly, when we lived in the Caribbean, and it was not dog friendly. There wasn't a lot of places to take her, and so I and it was hot. So I had really early mornings to get up, and there was one beach. If I was super early, I could take her to and run her with the ball. And then in the evenings, like, in that short window of when it wasn't so hot out and before it got dark, I'd throw that backpack on her and take her trail running. When the backpack was to, of course, give her more of a job and tire her out a little more. Yeah. But, but yeah.

Laura Kåmark [00:46:54]:
So we're so we're doing that with the dog. So I'm curious because you're saying that the hands free goes across the chest versus around the waist. Is that better, like, for us ergonomically? Like, can you tell me a little bit about that?

Alyson Rodges [00:47:07]:
It's safer. The the hands free, I actually my prototype is at the place right now. 1 of my employees is using it. It's essentially this, just longer, and it hooks, and it has a snap, and it snaps right here. Right? And and it comes and it's adjustable so that it doesn't have to be high. When you tie things around your waist, your it can get tight. And when you hook things to your pants, I can't tell you how many of my employees have had pants cooled down, you know, or their belt loop broke. Yep.

Alyson Rodges [00:47:39]:
Right? So that those are problems. So the hands free and then, then you've got the apparatus at the end, which is that this is the patented part. Right? The loop the loops, the slide that it can be a slip lead, a traditional slip lead, or in those moments when some silly shenanigans are happening, you can instantly put that nose loop on to get that extra control. Right? And that backup safety. So it's way more comfortable. And what you're talking about, that hands free, that's called tethering. Yeah. Tethering is part of one of our purpose driven activities.

Alyson Rodges [00:48:13]:
It's what we teach people to do. Right? So you're doing exactly what you should be doing, and our hands release just lets you do it, and it comes across, and it doesn't bite in. We I've had so many different ropes and leather and blah blah blah. The width of my rope is perfect for coming across here. It's not too thick, not too thin. It because thin bites in, too thick, rub. It just this is just the right. So there you go.

Laura Kåmark [00:48:39]:
Oh, I love it. Aly, I could sit here all day and talk this. You know my love of dogs. I love chatting with you. We are getting so close to time. I had so many more things I wanted to ask you, but we can always come back on.

Alyson Rodges [00:48:51]:
Oh my gosh.

Laura Kåmark [00:48:51]:
Link all your products, all your things in the show notes. So all our listeners who I have tons of dog listeners that are tuning into

Alyson Rodges [00:48:59]:
dogs. I wanna help all of you live life together in a safe, sane, and civilized way. Right? It's so fun. And you're doing great. And I'm I'm really proud of you because you do have a dog of size. Right? But I you know, even those small dogs though, especially with the elderly, with the skin that's so fragile, Even a 5 pound dog jumping off of an elderly person's lap can flay them like a zombie and they get an infection and get MRSA or or sepsis. I mean, it these are things that have happened to my clients. I know it to be true.

Alyson Rodges [00:49:33]:
So we really need to help you all learn how to do this in a good way no matter the size or age of the dog. Right?

Laura Kåmark [00:49:40]:
Love that. I do have one question I ask everyone who comes on the show, and that is what is one piece of advice you would give to someone when they are growing and scaling their business to help them be bolder, be louder, and make waves.

Alyson Rodges [00:49:55]:
I love that. Be bolder. Well, just go do it. Number 1, don't let your fear of technology or your lack of technology stop you. Just start. That's really all I've ever done. I just start. I have an idea.

Alyson Rodges [00:50:11]:
I have a modicum of skill in something, and I go, I'm just gonna go do it. You get better. You too get better. You get smarter. You get more educated. You get more help. But if you can't scale, if you can't give it up. Right, Laura? You if you you cannot scale.

Alyson Rodges [00:50:31]:
Everything I've done, I've done so I can scale. But you have to have the systems in place to do it, and you're not gonna have the systems on day 1. That's okay. But you have to have your day 1. So start. And then find people like you. Hello? Hire it out. You just have to make that leap someday when you go, okay.

Alyson Rodges [00:50:53]:
I'm gonna do this so that the technology catches up to what you're trying to do. Does that help? Does that answer that?

Laura Kåmark [00:50:59]:
Yes. It does. That's amazing advice. I love it. Aly, tell our listeners, where can they come find you? Where are you hanging out online? Let them know your website. All the things that I will link up in the show notes.

Alyson Rodges [00:51:09]:
Thank you. It's Alys Puppy Boot Camp. It's a mouthful. But Alyspuppybootcamp.com. My Good Walker Leash is there. My training packages are there. My online course is there, which is really fun. And, Laura, we're just getting ready to do I do these 4 times a year.

Alyson Rodges [00:51:30]:
We're doing a 2 week workshop on the academy for nervous and anxious dogs. Oh. Yeah. I and it's a 2 week it's the same academy. The academy never changes, but it's a 2 week. I I walk you through the course. And we have a special Facebook group. And I do I do one for puppies.

Alyson Rodges [00:51:48]:
I do one for nervous and anxious dogs, and we do 4 of them a year. So this is my nervous and anxious dogs one. I've done 1 puppy, 1 already. So I do a different focus, and we do, 3 or 4 lives during that 2 weeks during our little private Facebook group that we set up for the academy, workshop. Those are called workshops. Same academy, we just all go through it together in 2 weeks, and it's really fun. And, I have emphasis as emphasis of information on whatever that subject is, and this one is anxious and nervous thoughts.

Laura Kåmark [00:52:20]:
What are the dates for that?

Alyson Rodges [00:52:23]:
It launches, in 2 weeks. I have to I have to look at my calendar on that one. Nick might have someone that helps me with that. It launches on, May for, May 20 I mean, April 29th.

Laura Kåmark [00:52:37]:
Wonderful.

Alyson Rodges [00:52:38]:
Yeah. It it launches on there. The presale will be the week before, which is next week. Yeah. I know. Sorry about that. I I you guys, I am so not technologically sound in any way, shape, or form. And yet look what I've managed to do.

Alyson Rodges [00:52:51]:
You know, we have a multimillion dollar business because we just started. Start. Start. Everything else starts to come in time. You'll save those dollars and and get the help you need when you need

Laura Kåmark [00:53:04]:
it. Wonderful. Ali, thank you so much for coming on the show today. This has been such a fun conversation.

Alyson Rodges [00:53:10]:
Well, Laura, thank you for having me. I love talking to you, and and thank you for helping me navigate all this stuff that lets me do what I do out there to people that don't come in person. I appreciate it.

Laura Kåmark [00:53:24]:
Thanks so much for listening to this week's episode. Be sure to check out the show notes at laurakamark.com/podcast. And if you're ready to turn your website into a marketing machine, get more sales, save time, and simplify the back end of your business, grab my free resource, power integrations for your website. Head on over to laurakamark.com/power. If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure to subscribe. And also, I'll just love you forever if you leave me a review. It helps get this podcast in front of other people that can help inspire. Thanks so much for listening.

Laura Kåmark [00:54:02]:
I'll see you next week. Bye now.